path: root/blog/posts/discord2/index.md

So [apparently](https://archive.is/PvpAx) Discord will soon force all of its users to submit to invasive age verification in order to have full use of the platform, regardless of whether they're in an area where that's currently required. Also, they're finally [doing an IPO](https://archive.is/IiL2A). In other words, the need to dump Discord is more pressing than ever.

<aside class="aside">
  <div class="aside-image" style="width: 11rem; padding-left: calc(var(--stdpadding) / 2);">
    <img src="/images/reactions/livid.png" alt="me absolutely fucking livid gripping the wall so hard it's breaking">
  </div>
  <div class="aside-content">
    <p><em>I'm just saying. We wouldn't be here if you all had listened to me back in 2023. But this post isn't about that.</em></p>
  </div>
</aside>

Real isopod h`ead`s know I've [posted about this before](/blog/posts/discord/). Feel free to go and read that for my full case against Discord. This here article, to pull a ChatGPT-ism, isn't about the many fundamental reasons you should be leary of Discord and any platform like it, and it's also not about how fucking bitter I am that we're all even in this situation three years after I wrote my first dissertation on the subject &mdash; it's about what our other options are, right now at this moment.

<figure class="quote">
  <blockquote>
    i think the goal Right Now is to switch from Discord to Literally Anything Better and give time for people actually developing Proper Federated Replacements to build features polish their UX.
  </blockquote>
  <figcaption>
    &mdash; <a href="https://not-brain.d.on-t.work/notes/aind9anvh4gqpj8w">kopper</a>
  </figcaption>
</figure>

Like the article that is now part 1 in a series that is 2 parts 2 long, this post is here to get you off of Discord, but seeing as this goal has become more urgent much faster than the state of alternatives has improved, I'm gonna have to compromise on my ideals a bit this time. The fact is that nothing out there is as good as Discord at what Discord does, so trying to get away from it is going to be an exercise in trade-offs, but it's also not reasonable to expect everyone and their Fortnite group to switch to self-hosted XMPP and WebRTC.

If you're serious about getting away from Discord, you'll need to assess which options work the best for each of your communities, and odds are you'll end up replacing it with more than one alternative. For my part, this post is going to focus mainly on alternatives that replicate Discord's functionality as closely as possible, and would be relatively straightforward drop-in replacements that you could move to right now with relatively (admittedly, that word's doing some heavy lifting here) minimal effort. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of those, but I'll try my best.

I'll admit to having some blind spots here. Namely, I'm aware Discord is available for the latest consoles, and I don't own any of those, so I'm really not qualified to recommend alternatives for that use case, if indeed any exist.

# [Stoat](https://stoat.chat/) (formerly Revolt)

I liked the name Revolt, but [apparently](https://stoat.chat/updates/long-live-stoat) they had to change it after getting a cease and desist over that name. Fair enough, I guess.

Anyway, Stoat is one of the more polished and feature-complete Discord clones I'm aware of. That's not to say it actually *is* either at present &mdash; the rebrand seems to have come with a new, overhauled frontend that isn't entirely finished yet, and all video-related features are still in the works.

However, Stoat is among the easiest of these to adapt to coming from Discord, and it has the benefits of being a) open source and b) not American, the latter of which is especially relevant lately. It's also the only one of the True discord-likes on the list to have any kind of official native mobile app &mdash; though it is very much In Beta and missing quite a lot of features &mdash; and it's the only one so far with discoverability for public ~~guilds~~ Servers, if that matters to you.

# Steam Chat

Valve has the chance to do the funniest thing right now.

Steam has had its own built-in text and voice chat solution for a good long time, and it's been improving as of late. It does have some major downsides: there's no video chat, screen sharing is limited to your Steam games, and messages are ephemeral, disappearing after two weeks. Plus, it's missing most of the Fun Stuff like user-defined custom emotes that you've come to expect from Discord.

Still, if you're looking for a chat solution to use while gaming with your buddies, Steam's built-in functionality is worth a look. In spite of its idiosyncracies, it's polished and mature, and it's even available on mobile, albeit through a separate app from the main Steam one.

# [Zulip](https://zulip.com/)

The best way I can describe Zulip is as a forum but with Discord vibes. It's a bit of a situational replacement, but if you're using Discord as a forum or a support channel for your open source project, Zulip is almost certainly better. I found out about it because the Polyproto people are using it for this (more on that in a bit).

The main downside with Zulip is that it's got some limitations unless you pay for a subscription (although let's be real, so does Discord), but they will seemingly waive that for open-source projects and in some other cases, and you can self-host it to get rid of most of those limitations if that's up your alley.

# [Osmium](https://osmium.chat/)

<p class="h2caption">Added on Feb 15</p>

Starting to think I was too quick on the draw publishing this a week ago.

Osmium advertises itself as a "globally distributed community messaging and voice/video platform" with encryption "both in transit and at rest". What "distributed" means in this context beyond, like, the extremely standard practice of having servers in multiple countries isn't made clear, but the voice and video part seems to actually be fully up and running (looking at you, Stoat) and to their credit they do acknowledge that "encrypted both in transit and at rest" is different from end-to-end encrypted.

The main thing that gives me pause about Osmium off the bat is that it's still pretty small; the official "community" (server, in Discord parlance &mdash; Fluxer actually uses this term too) that you get automatically placed in upon signing up is sitting at about 700 total members as of writing, so time will tell how it scales. It's also very much early access software right now &mdash; the UI/UX polish and feature completeness aren't quite up to the level of Fluxer or even Stoat, and the buttons in the UI don't always... do anything.

Also also, Osmium is not currently open source. The main dev, an individual going by [Folf](https://folf.me/), claims that the "client will be open sourced once things are stable", but that's far from the same thing as Fluxer's "open source and you can self-host the backend".

<figure class="media">
  <img src="osmiuml.png" alt="Message from the aforementioned Folf responding to a question about if Osmium is open source: &quot;not at the moment, client will be open sourced once things are stable&quot;">
</figure>

That said, I'm getting the best vibes off of this project on, like, a social level. That default community seems pretty accepting of transgender types, and the dev has expressed eventual intent to add such goodies as explicit support for some sort of Pluralkit-type functionality:

<figure class="media">
  <img src="osmiumw.png" alt="Message from Folf responding to a request for &quot;some kind of like pluralkit alternative built in&quot; by saying &quot;this is planned in the future&quot; and then &quot;one part of the bot API will be to allow bots to set a name/avatar per message&quot;">
</figure>

Osmium probably isn't up to snuff for most yet, but I'm rooting for it. If you're just looking for a place for your group chat full of highly-online queers and can tolerate a bit of jank, this may just be for you. No mobile app, but there is a PWA.

# Honorable Mentions

That there is about everything I could dredge up that mostly fit the brief. I'll admit things aren't looking great here. That said, there are some projects that don't quite fit the above criteria that I feel are worth mentioning.

## [Signal](https://signal.org/)

Signal is the best encrypted messaging service, bar none, and it's not close. All of your communication is end-to-end encrypted using some of the most bulletproof cryptography around (though I'm far from qualified to speak on the specifics), and you should be using it for your Whatsapp-style messaging needs anyway, even in the likely event it can't replace Discord for you.

As mentioned, Signal functions like a Whatsapp clone. It supports your bread-and-butter features like voice and video calls, and some fun stuff like Instagram-style stories and Telegram-style stickers. It requires a phone number to sign up, but you can set a custom username so you don't have to share it with anyone.

## [Polyproto](https://polyproto.org/)

The latest and maybe greatest federated messaging protocol. Made by a bunch of cool queers and seems very promising, but it doesn't seem to actually have any functioning clients as of yet. Still, something to keep an eye on for sure.

## [Spacebar](https://spacebar.chat/)

An attempt at an open source reimplementation of Discord. It's designed to be fully "Discord-compatible", which doesn't mean interoperable, but it does mean that any third party software made for Discord such as bots or alternate clients should be compatible with its APIs.

This seems like an ideal fit for the role of "drop-in replacement for Discord" in theory, but from what I can tell, while functional, it's not really there yet. If you want to give it a shot, [Fermi](https://fermi.chat/) seems to be the preeminent compatible client at the moment.

## [Mumble](https://www.mumble.info/)

A very mature self-hostable voice chat server. That's about all it does, but if that's all you need out of Discord and you've got a massive nerd like me in your friend group who can set it up it might be worth looking into.

## [Sharkord](https://sharkord.com/)

<p class="h2caption">Added on Feb 15</p>

Another open-source, self-hostable Discord clone currently in alpha. It's in this section primarily because it doesn't currently have an official instance, so much like Mumble and Teamspeak (more on that later) you need someone to host this in order to use it.

# Dishonorable Mentions

And now for some options that suck and aren't really viable in my opinion, but that I feel warrant addressing.

## Matrix

<aside class="aside">
  <div class="aside-image">
    <img src="/images/reactions/sob.png" alt="me sobbing">
  </div>
  <div class="aside-content">
    <p>You had so much potential! Why did it have to turn out this way?</p>
  </div>
</aside>

Matrix was one of my top picks back in 2023, but it had some unignorable flaws then, and it hasn't really improved in the intervening time. I could opine on this for quite a bit, but suffice to say that the usability and reliability have stagnated while the project's governance has gotten substantially less trustworthy. [This](https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07) and [that](https://paper.wf/alexia/matrix-is-cooked) article do a pretty comprehensive job of explaining it.

**[Update, Feb 11]** Someone pointed out to me that one of those articles is a bit old now, so I went digging for some more recent ones and wouldn't you know it, I found a couple more from mid last year. [Here's](https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2025/07/im-never-going-back-to-matrix/) [those](https://マリウス.com/giving-up-on-element-and-matrixorg/).

**[Update, Feb 15]**

lol

<figure class="quote">
  <blockquote>
    Our efforts are prioritised on our target markets which currently does not include being a Discord replacement
  </blockquote>
  <figcaption>
    &mdash; <a href="https://github.com/element-hq/element-web/issues/5993#issuecomment-3884340391">Element maintainer in a Github comment</a>
  </figcaption>
</figure>

## XMPP

I'd love to recommend XMPP, I truly would, but the UX just isn't there, plus it seems like all its most passionate supporters like it specifically because it doesn't have most of the qualities that make Discord appealing to the average gamer.

IRC is even worse in this regard. It scarcely warrants mentioning.

**[Update, Feb 15]** Apparently an XMPP client called Movim is working towards adding multi-channel group chat functionality in the vein of Discord. Seeing that their website claims support for video chats and screen sharing, I signed up and checked it out for completeness' sake, and I have Thoughts.

Movim isn't a Discord. I think it's trying to be something entirely different. It's got news aggregation, microblogging, Instagram-style stories, and plenty of UX quirks that might be confusing if you're not already ingrained in the XMPP-cosystem. Given that the [PR](https://github.com/movim/movim/pull/1520) to add what they're calling "Spaces" was made literally today, it's very possible that it represents a knee-jerk reactive attempt to capitalize on Discord's fumble and grow their userbase. From what I've seen, I'm not optimistic that it'll work.

## Teamspeak

Yeah, Teamspeak is in fact still kicking. I guess you could use it if you want, but setting up your own server requires either self-hosting or paying someone to host it for you, and their licensing puts artificial limits on what you can do even if you host it yourself. Plus, well, they're a bit of a US military contractor, and proud of it, too, so it's not a great choice if you have principles.

## Roblox Guilded

LOL. LMAO. RIP BOZO

## Slack/Mattermost/Teams

<p class="h2caption">or your half-joking enterprise messaging software suggestion of choice</p>

Look, I'll use it if everyone goes there I *guess*, but I get the distinct impression that by and large these platforms would be *more* hostile to the outspoken presence of my ilk than Discord is trying to become. Also, the vibes are rancid, so I'd rather not.

## [Fluxer](https://fluxer.app/)

<p class="h2caption">Added on Feb 13</p>

I learned about this one a few days after initially publishing this article from a shitpost on Tumblr and felt it warranted a mention. Fluxer seems like a *suspiciously* complete Discord clone, complete with voice, video, a nearly identical UI, and a premium subscription that closely resembles Discord Nitro.

According to their website, Fluxer is developed by a Swedish company, is open-source with explicit support for self-hosting the official backend, and has an extensive roadmap of planned features, some of which are completely unheard of over in Discord land.

**[Further update, Feb 16]** I created an account to poke around on it, and once my registration was approved about a day later (fair enough, they've probably seen a huge influx of users lately) I had fairly positive initial impressions, that I initially had here &mdash; I called it *suspiciously* complete up there, and apparently that was foreshadowing! Check out this initial commit date:

<figure class="media">
  <img src="vibecodedalert.png" alt="Screenshot of the initial Github commit for Fluxer, indicating that it's from January 1, 2026.">
</figure>

One does not simply build something like this in a month and a half. Especially not with TWO whole contributors to the official Github repo. This REEKS of vibe-coding, so badly that I no longer feel comfortable recommending it.

## [DCTS](https://github.com/hackthedev/dcts-shipping)

<p class="h2caption">Added on Feb 15</p>

Apparently, this is an acronym for "Direct Communication Through Sockets", which strikes me as a bit of a misnomer since it's obviously not peer-to-peer.

DCTS is *yet another* open-source, self-hostable Discord clone like Sharkord. This one has an official instance, but you'll need to self-host it if you intend to do anything with it beyond putzing around in the official server. Fortunately, that's all anyone reading this will likely want to do, after scrolling up too far in the #spicy-memes channel and seeing the type of shit the lead dev thinks is funny. 

Ignoring that, however, the UX is mediocre at best, the featureset is very basic, and the whole interface has a pervasive male-gaze anime girl aesthetic that appeals to a very specific demographic that I'm not in. All in all, if I was gonna spin one of these up myself, it'd be either Sharkord, Fluxer, or even Mumble long before I touched this pile of radioactive sludge again.

# Conclusion

I'd love to be able to give you some better news. I want so badly to be able to say that there's something obvious you can switch to that's just as good or better in the ways that matter \*cough cough TWITTER\* with encryption, and federation, and open source to boot, but as far as I'm aware this is kind of it.

With this decidedly sub-optimal state of affairs in mind, my call to action is this: Look into these alternatives &mdash; test them out, as a group if you can, see if one or multiple can work for you and your friends. If you're of the especially nerdy sort, contribute code to Polyphony or maybe Spacebar, and maybe see if you can make XMPP or (I guess) Matrix work. And finally, for the love of Glob, cancel your fucking Nitro. *Don't financially reward Discord for this shit.* ***I promise you don't need it.***

<div class="buttons" style="margin-bottom: 1rem;">
  <img src="discord-no-way-2.gif">
</div>

---

Also, whatever you end up doing, [here](https://github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter)'s a utility that can export your Discord chat history to a locally stored file. Do with this what you will.